Talk:Meeting 2014-08-26

Storage

Guan's general thoughts about storage

Here's my general attitude towards storage:

At any given point in time, we're probably storing too much stuff. At various times, we may also be storing the wrong stuff. It is a desideratum of any storage proposal that it ensures we are storing the right things.

What should we store?

1. Tools and materials that are likely to be useful and actually used, and that people know about (announced on the mailing list or cataloged using Things or a wiki page or whatever method)
2. Things for projects that are being actively worked on
3. Something of special sentimental value, even if they aren't used, strictly limited in number
4. A reasonable amount of things for each member, even if they're not being worked on

At this instant, we are storing a lot of things that we shouldn't be, especially on the member shelves but also in the communal areas. We are storing things from people who are no longer members, and things that nobody knows about and therefore is unlikely to be used. If that's cleared out, we can free up a lot of space, and postpone the cost and hassle of building new storage.

Who is going to do the work of clearing out stuff from the member shelves? Well, I'll put some effort into it when I can, and everyone should. But this could also be left to anyone who wants the space. Do you want to store some of your stuff? Throw out someone else's stuff!

Concrete action plan:

1. Anything that's not labeled can be thrown out * completely agree with sufficient notice, including email notice that this will be the rule in future --DrReeves (talk) 03:04, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
2. When I have some time, I will go around post-it things that I suspect are effectively abandoned, with a date 7-10 days in the future * Please don't do this in August, as some people will be away on vacation for longer than that! Maybe a 2 month deadline? --DrReeves (talk) 03:04, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

Comments on recent proposals:

1. Taller shelves (IKEA GORM or other solutions): This seems the most natural way to expand current storage. I do think we can delay the need for it with some cleanup.
2. Under table storage: I would vote against any such proposals for personal reasons, because I hate that they steal leg room. Based on my principles, I'm also concerned that they put whatever is stored in them out of mind, and therefore less likely to be used, and less worthy of storage.
   1. Guan, if you look at my plans and the associated narrative, you will see that they are carefully constructed to allow over 20" from the table edge to the units where chairs are placed. If you place a box in that position in the space and then sit in front of it, my guess is that you will agree that this suffices. -Peter.

Random rants about storage:

• Cardboard boxes are annoying because it's often hard to stack things on top of them because they are not closed properly.
• Black ink on dark colored tape was invented by Satan.
• Our current shelving units are so crappy. But they were cheap.

--Guan (talk) 00:51, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

A Few Additional Thoughts From Peter In Re. Guan

1. No disagreement w. Guan on what we should store
2. No disagreement that we could use a cleanup
3. No problem with doing cleanup before we add storage space
   1. But we need a plan for that
   2. And no problem with entertaining such a plan. :-)
      1. Part of my plan is self-executing: anyone who wants to store something, and can't find space, will have to find something to throw out. --Guan (talk) 01:37, 26 August 2014 (UTC) * I think this is key, let's find a good way to implement this that will cause no more than 3 flamewars. --DrReeves (talk) 03:06, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
      2. Here's one way to measure the success of the cleanup effort: There should be at least 3 major flamewars because someone was mad that their stuff was thrown out. --Guan (talk) 01:42, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
4. To list some ideas that have come up and one that hasn't
   1. More shelves, higher shelves
   2. Under-table storage
      1. FBOW, we're doing it anyway. Guan says it takes up leg room.
      2. The proposal I issues tries to preserve sufficient leg room try it out.
      3. So if we're going to retain under-table space at all, it makes sense to entertain a proposal (mine or another's) that preserves sufficient leg room.
         1. Ding ding ding. Let's not have any under-table storage. --Guan (talk) 01:36, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
   3. Shelving above the soldering area to hold test equipment.
      1. I think this has to be viewed in the context of utility as well as storage expansion
      2. I'd still like to see a plan/diagram of this.
   4. Storage mezzanine above door, along wall opposite mill and drill press
      1. I agree this is probably overly complicated. but see next proposal
   5. We could build shelves up to the ceiling and access them via a rolling track ladder (library ladder)
      1. This seems feasible to me, if we decide to expand.

Industrial shelving

Peter

I suspect we'd be better off with industrial shelving, possibly used, that, in places, could in principle be extended up to the ceiling, accessible via a ladder on a rail.

Finally, we have some large items associated with bee-keeping and brewing that it is hard to store on commodity shelving, and we should make sure we have reasonable places to keep such things.

Guan

I agree that we eventually want to go to industrial shelving when we can afford it.

One issue with many of the types I have seen is that they're too deep. We could have two layers of storage, but I also don't like having things hidden away in the back (because it's not readily accessible, and so isn't worth storing).

• Not necessarily, on either expense or depth. For example: used industrial steel shelving, 12x36", 87" high, $99 per bay. Scroll down at http://www.aasurplusinc.com/page/21962. When we're ready, I think we can find something that will fit our needs at a reasonable price. --Shenkin (talk) 14:43, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

If we go to industrial shelving, we'd still have the problem Gabe identified with boxes being stacked too high. Is it silly to imagine some kind of intermediate wood shelving system between the big expensive metal/wire shelves?

• Despite looking through emails, I can't find any comment of that nature from Gabe. Does he mean that our small boxes are stacked too high on individual shelves? If so, we could put the shelves a bit closer together.
• I would actually want to build some shelving next to the entrance of the machine shop that goes up to the ceiling, and, when we're ready to populate the upper levels, get a rolling track ladder.
• But I find myself inclined to table (in the American sense of the word) this whole discussion until we do a cleanup. --Shenkin (talk) 14:43, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
• In any case, no votable proposal was made before the deadline for the meeting. How about we create a new, more permanent Storage page to gather the different views. --Guan (talk) 14:53, 26 August 2014 (UTC)